"Following Jesus Christ"

April 2, 1977


His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada<br>Founder-Acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness 


Tamala Krsna: So your answer to his question, "Do you consider the message of Jesus Christ to be universal?" You say yes.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Because he says, "Thou shalt not kill."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: But none of them are following.

Prabhupada: No, all bogus. And going on in the name of Christian.

Tamala Krsna: And he says he lived in our temples, but he is not satisfied with the Christian faith, but he is finding a great deal of satisfaction now living in our temples.

Prabhupada: First of all become Christian, that you are following all the ten commandments. "Judge not others lest you be judged."

Tamala Krsna: His second question is, "Considering that the Bible describes Jesus as the savior of the people of God, not only of Israel but of every man's sins, does it not minimize his actual position to say that he is simply an avatara, and does it not contradict the teachings of the Bible...?" First of all he says isn't that minimizing him to say that he's an avatara?

Prabhupada: We accept him as avatara, saktyavesa-avatara, empowered incarnation of God. That we accept.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah. He says, "Like any other revealed scripture, the Bible's teachings are absolute, but are they to be understood literally or symbolically, and are they applicable for all men?"

Prabhupada: Literally, not symbolically.

Tamala Krsna: He says, "What is the actual meaning of the sacrifice of the cross, Jesus dying on the cross?"

Prabhupada: It has no meaning. The people were so rascal that they attempted to kill him. Because he was speaking of God. So we can understand the pollution of the then society, how intelligent they were. He had to deal with such rascals that he was speaking about God and the result is that they wanted to kill him first. He preached, "Thou shalt not kill," and they killed him first. This is their intelligence. Now people are advanced. Those doctrines, they are not (indistinct). That's all. The answer.

Tamala Krsna: He says, "Did Jesus die on the cross to redeem all the sins of the world?"

Prabhupada: This is another sinful thought -- Jesus has taken contract for ridding your sinful activities. That's a plea, what is called plea for the sinners, that they will continue acting sinfully, and Christ will take contract to counteract. This is most sinful conviction. Instead of stopping sinful activities, we have given contract to Jesus Christ to counteract it.

Tamala Krsna: So these people are not actually getting free of their sins unless they stop sinning.

Prabhupada: Then what is the use of his preaching? They will continue sinful activities, and Jesus Christ will take contract for saving them. How nonsense idea this is! Bhavananda, do you think it is good idea?

Bhavananda: Not a good idea, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Nonsense rascals. These people should be immediately hanged. "Our religion is very good." What is that? "We cannot stop acting sinfully, and Christ has taken contract. He will save us."

Tamala Krsna: Rascals.

Prabhupada: How rascaldom it is! Namno balad papa-buddhih. Nama-aparadha. "I am chanting Hare Krsna, so no sinful action will be." It is like that. That means "I will continue my sinful activities and become a Christian, become a Vaisnava, become a chanter."

Tamala Krsna: Nama-aparadha.

Prabhupada: See whether I am answering correct.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, you are answering very good. He gives a lot of quotations from the Bible. So I'll just read you two of them, and it is very easy to...

Prabhupada: What is the use of giving me quotations from...? We are talking about practical things.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah. The only point I was going to bring out was that it is clear how they misread the Bible. Just like one of them says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life." But you pointed out that to believe means to follow his teachings. That they don't understand. They say, "We believe in Jesus," but they don't follow his teachings.

Prabhupada: Then where is his belief? Where is the question of belief? Unless strictly follow the teachings, there is no question of belief. It is bogus principle.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, it's all... His next question is, "The essence of Christianism is to believe that Christ is our saviour and redeemer, but the final test of one's faith in Christ rests upon one's hope that he will come back down to earth from heaven to establish his glory and his realm of justice forever. Is this second advent of his to be taken as a symbolic one, or will he actually come back?"

Prabhupada: I do not know. What does he say? What does he say? Explain.

Tamala Krsna: What does he say?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Well, he quotes, "And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of earth mourn and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." In other words... "And shall he send..." There is so many statements in the Bible to allude that Christ will come again.

Prabhupada: What is the harm if he comes again?

Tamala Krsna: Practically that is the whole basis of the Christians' faith is they are awaiting the day when Christ will come.

Prabhupada: For the time being, you follow what he has said. Rather, what is the use of waiting for him?

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, if you don't follow what he said, then even if he comes he won't take you. He says if that happens, if Christ comes back, what will be the position of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His Krsna consciousness movement? Nasty question.

Prabhupada: That you shall see when he comes.

Tamala Krsna: (laughs) That we shall see when he comes. Right. For the time being the Krsna consciousness movement is here. Next question: "What is this end of the world?" Then he says, "In your..."

Prabhupada: The world will be devastated, and everything material... Your body is there. It is being maintained, and it will be finished. Similarly, the whole world body will be done in the same way. There is no other way. It is created, it is maintained, and it is finished. Nasa. It is called nasa in Sanskrit.

Tamala Krsna: What is that, n-a-s-s, nasa?

Prabhupada: N-a-s-h-a. No-n-a-s.

Tamala Krsna: N-a-s means?

Prabhupada: Nasa means devastated, finished. Apaksaya-nasa.

Tamala Krsna: He says, "In your introduction to the Bhagavad-gita you refer to Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianism and other religious faiths as sectarian designations, but isn't Krsna consciousness just another kind of designation in order not to call it Krsna-ism, another ism?"

Prabhupada: No. That you have to understand later on.

Tamala Krsna: "What is the difference between a pure Christian, or at least a sincere one, and a sincere devotee of Krsna?"

Prabhupada: No difference.

Tamala Krsna: He says he read a passage of the Bhavisya Maha-Purana written by Vyasadeva three thousand years before Christ foretelling Jesus Christ's presence in the Himalayas in 78 of the Christian era, and his meeting with King Shalamoyi.(?) Are there any other prophecies in the Bhavisya Maha-Purana or in any other scriptures telling more accurately Jesus Christ's birthday?

Prabhupada: Everything is accurate there.

Tamala Krsna: In that particular Purana? He says he is sorry to take your very precious time, and he prays that you answer all of his questions, which you have done. So he thanks you very much for reading this letter and for your expected help. He asks one last question in a P.S., which I think is practically an important question. He says, "To practically follow Jesus Christ for a sincere searcher of the truth who does not recognize and accept the external manifestations of the Krsna consciousness movement, is it possible to attain love of God?" No.

Prabhupada: Love of God means God's mercy. If God is pleased, He can do anything. So that pleasure of God can be awakened by love. This is called in Sanskrit krpa-siddhi. Perfection out of affection. Out of mercy.

Tamala Krsna: He wants to know whether it is possible to attain that affection of love for God...

Prabhupada: No, that is not generally...

Tamala Krsna: ...without taking part in this Krsna consciousness movement.

Prabhupada: One must follow the regulative principles and refrain from sinful activities. Then it depends on Krsna's mercy. You cannot force Him to give you mercy. That is not possible. Mercy is mercy. You have to do your duty, and the mercy depends upon Him.

Tamala Krsna: Good answers.

Prabhupada: All good news?

Guru dasa: (entering?) Yes. This is very nice place, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Hm. Nice place. Better than anywhere?

Guru dasa: Wherever you are is a tirtha. When you are there, it is better than any place. Tirthi-kurvanti tirthani. Tirthi-kurvanti tirthani. Where you are is...

Prabhupada: Tirthi-kurvanti tirthani. Svantah-sthena gadabhrta. One who keeps Krsna always within the heart, wherever he goes, that is tirtha. Everywhere Krsna is there, but one who remembers, he is the yoginam api sarvesam mad-gatenantar-atmana [Bg. 6.47]. It is very simple. People will not be... Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam. The human life is a boon... One can do this very easily. Maya is so strong. Very easy thing. Even a child can do. Dehantara vasthite siddhi.(?) Maintaining this body. All right. What is their business? How to maintain the... Huh? What is their aim in life? How to live comfortably. That's all. They do not know anything. So what is the Radha-Damodara arrangement?

Guru dasa: There is no trouble there. I wanted to know if the Radha-Damodara file is in your almirah?

Prabhupada: Which one?

Guru dasa: The Vrndavana almirah? Aksayananda Swami thinks that it's in that almirah, the file?

Prabhupada: What is the need of that?

Guru dasa: Not needed, but...

Prabhupada: All right. So I have arranged with the bank to pay.

Guru dasa: Yes, yes.

Prabhupada: So kanika(?) is offering?

Guru dasa: Yes. Every day we put a nice photograph, that photograph that I took many years ago, in the frame.

Prabhupada: Where is it put?

Guru dasa: It is put on the upraised portion where your danda is. Is that all right?

Prabhupada: Which room?

Guru dasa: In the place where you took rest.

Prabhupada: So offering every day.

Guru dasa: Yes, that is being done.

Prabhupada: That's nice.

Guru dasa: Do you want me to try and also get the rental of the room in the Nandagrama temple, the old?

Prabhupada: It is available?

Guru dasa: The room is occupied now.

Prabhupada: Then not possible. Otherwise you could have taken.

Guru dasa: I can ask though, for the future.

Prabhupada: Gopala. Nowadays nobody is... I do not know what is the arrangement, but if it is available...

Tamala Krsna: Probably you could get it. Somebody is probably paying fifteen rupees or twenty rupees a month for it.

Guru dasa: He is very favorable, Gopala. He has your old telegram receipts. He saves them. Just like a devotee would save anything you write, he has them also.

Prabhupada: Did you talk with him?

Guru dasa: Not about the rooms. I just know him. Because I didn't receive the instructions until yesterday.

Prabhupada: He formerly offered me that "You deposit in the name of Deity ten thousand," he would give me the Seva-kunja. So at that time ten thousand was not..., dream for me. So let him remain as he is doing, but we can do something with. You can improve by repairing and everything.

Guru dasa: Yes. Also we have been distributing books at Radha-Damodara.

Prabhupada: That is main business.

Guru dasa: We have been distributing a few Gitar Gans a day, a few magazines. To the pilgrims.

Prabhupada: Anyway, something is there. And Hindi books?

Guru dasa: Yes, Hindi magazine.

Prabhupada: You have got small Hindi books?

Guru dasa: Yes, yes. Some of those also are being distributed. Now also while I was in Delhi, on the way here, one ex-king approached a devotee about wanting to sell a place to us. He wanted to sell a house to our institution.

Prabhupada: Where is it?

Guru dasa: It is in Mount Abu. So they referred it to me. I went with the president of Delhi and I saw the house. And...

Prabhupada: Mount Abu between Jaipur and Delhi?

Guru dasa: Between Jaipur and Ahmedabad.

Prabhupada: Ahmedabad. Yes, yes.

Guru dasa: It is a very high hill station, very clean air. And the house is sixty-three rooms. It's a mansion. And one hundred acres.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Guru dasa: And full of trees and jasmine flowers.

Prabhupada: It will make nice scenery.

Guru dasa: Beautiful. Heavenly scenery.

Prabhupada: Hm.

Guru dasa: It's a little bit hard to get to, but there is no place like it. When you go to that...

Prabhupada: How to go up there?

Guru dasa: Well, Ahmedabad...

Prabhupada: No, to...

Guru dasa: There's car...

Tamala Krsna: Zig-zag road.

Prabhupada: Zig-zag. How long it takes?

Guru dasa: By car, from Ahmedabad, because you can take the plane to Ahmedabad.

Prabhupada: All through hills only?

Guru dasa: No. The hill starts at a place called Abu Road. That takes about an hour by car.

Tamala Krsna: How long to Abu Road?

Guru dasa: By Ahmedabad? Two or three hours.

Prabhupada: By car.

Guru dasa: From Ahmedabad to Abu Road about two or three hours.

Prabhupada: By train.

Guru dasa: Train also goes, three hours.

Prabhupada: So how we shall utilize it?

Guru dasa: Well, I was mostly thinking for your health, if you wanted it.

Prabhupada: Now I am trapped. I am trapped here.

Guru dasa: It is a tourist center, but not a big one.

Tamala Krsna: Not much preaching there.

Prabhupada: Is there any Deities?

Guru dasa: No. Actually, my opinion is that it would be a great endeavor to take it, because the house needs also some repair. Although it is in good structural condition, it needs cleaning. But the only advantage is that there is no place left in Kali-yuga like it. Because it is such a beautiful mansion. And one hundred acres and a lake and in a hill, that's the advantage.

Prabhupada: And what price does he want?

Guru dasa: The price he didn't say yet. That we would have to negotiate.

Prabhupada: Not only you, others also, you can see first of all. If we can utilize, otherwise...

Tamala Krsna: How would we utilize such a thing?

Prabhupada: That you consider. Otherwise, why you should unnecessarily...?

Guru dasa: In other words, some other devotees should also...

Tamala Krsna: Put all the women there.

Prabhupada: Where are so much women? (laughter)

Guru dasa: So I have this for you, Srila Prabhupada. This is from Alex. For your cars.

Prabhupada: Hm. Yes, he wanted to pay me. What is the amount?

Guru dasa: Four thousand five hundred dollars. He gave it to me because he trusts me. Then Poland, we're very excited about going. Now there are six men, including Umapati, and in two weeks we are meeting in Germany, and we are going to chalk out our preaching program. I think it will be very good.

Prabhupada: Now the time is favorable. The Russians are ordering our books. And there is a prediction, the Russians will be first-class theists.

Tamala Krsna: First-class theists.

Prabhupada: Now they are atheists. They will become first-class theists. I think that there is... Just like Jagai and Madhai. Jagai and Madhai became great devotees. Valmiki. Valmiki was a dacoit. He became a... There are so many cases. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement is so superexcellent that we can turn the whole Russia to devotee. That is possible. They are searching after something solid and factual. They are harassed with this so-called Christian religion, Pope, and... That is a fact. They do not want anything humbug. But when they very critically read our literature, they will become devotee.

Guru dasa: And they will read it more critically than people who have so much sense gratification.

Prabhupada: Yes. That they are realizing. And they have got respect for Indian culture. And because our books are always with reference to the old Sanskrit verse, and we are explaining that, they have got natural attraction. That is possible.

Guru dasa: There are trade agreements between Poland and India too, now. So we may even be able to open up channels on cultural or trade basis from India from our side with Poland to give us a very established position in those countries.

Prabhupada: These dollars has to be deposited in Bank of America. Other bank will not take.

Tamala Krsna: Any bank will convert.

Prabhupada: No.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, yeah. I mean, when anybody comes here, any tourist, they always bring dollars.

Prabhupada: Is that?

Guru dasa: Yes.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes, it was done in the Central Bank, Mayapura.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, yes. Dollars is easy.

Prabhupada: All right. So organize that party.

Guru dasa: What about a receipt? Can you make one?

Tamala Krsna: You want a receipt?

Guru dasa: Just a kaccha one.

Prabhupada: So you can keep it.

Guru dasa: So Srila Prabhupada, I am going to go very soon.

Prabhupada: So you like this place?

Guru dasa: Oh, yes. This is fit for you almost. It should even be more greater.

Prabhupada: I am unfit for anywhere. With great struggle we secured this place.

Guru dasa: Actually, we have all struggled together for many years for so many things. And it is only by your grace that we were able to do it.

Prabhupada: [break] ...Vrndavana affairs going?

Guru dasa: Yes. I would just like to submit that I don't know what has been said, but my opinion about Aksayananda Swami is that he is a first-class devotee.

Prabhupada: That I know. Therefore I am keeping him. He is not qualified manager, but he is first-class devotee, and he has no visa problem.

Guru dasa: And he also is not duplicitous.

Prabhupada: No. Therefore he has got some special qualification. So managerial, it is not always possible. But these things required. We want one man that he has no visa problem, and at the sane time devotee.

Guru dasa: Yes. I went to the visa department. I just thought I should go. And I spoke to one man there. And I said, "Why is that we always have to spend five or six lakhs going and coming for no use? We are doing such good work, we could put that five or six lakhs into India." He said, "What can I do? I am under the law also." I said "The law is needing some change." He said "Your organization already changes the law." He said, "You never follow the rules." So I said "That is indicative that the law is not good." So then he said, "Let us see after the election." Anyway, I spoke to him that this is useless, that we spend five or six lakhs every year going and coming for no need.

Bhavananda: We don't stay out. They tell us to leave, we leave, one week later we're back.

Prabhupada: Andha yathandhair upaniyamanah [SB 7.5.31]. Everywhere they are doing this. (Sanskrit) The world is misled in this way by bad leaders. We are trying to get (indistinct).

Guru dasa: So I don't want to take your precious time too much.

Prabhupada: No. Come on, take it, take some precious time, take it. Bring some money. (laughter) That is also precious.

Guru dasa: I shall do that.

Tamala Krsna: You told the American GBC that you don't mind getting their letters of management when they are sending you one thousand dollars a day. You'll take the headache for that much.

Prabhupada: Anyway, our movement is sublime, our position is also sublime. Krsna is supplying everything what we need. We have got sublime books, philosophy. Now you arrange meetings of the scientist everywhere. We are, our party Dr. Svarupa Damodara and others, they will go and speak something.

Guru dasa: So I can do that in the Communist countries also.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes, everywhere.

Guru dasa: I'll do it.

Prabhupada: Science is for everyone. There is no such thing as Communist science. "Two plus two equal to four," that is both for the Communists and capitalists. That's a fact. Because I am Communist, I cannot say "Two plus two equal to five." It is four. So science means fact.

Tamala Krsna: That theatrical group will also be popular in Communist countries. That drama group will also be popular.

Prabhupada: Yes, yes, drama group also. That is from artistic side. And from scientific side. And gradually we are making Bombay as the headquarters. So occasionally you come and go, and if possible tackle these men and find money to be spent.

Guru dasa: Yes, visa.

Prabhupada: We are doing with so many temples. That is Indian property.

Guru dasa: Yes. Now I think I should go and see a bigger man than him.

Prabhupada: At least give permanent residence for one hundred men. Then we can manage.

Guru dasa: Yes. It is a waste of our time. Anyway, Indira is gone, so that will help.

Prabhupada: Maha-papi. But one papi replaced by is another papi. Yes. If they take our advice, then it can be...

Guru dasa: So your health appears all right to me.

Prabhupada: I think due to Bhavananda Maharaja. He is taking care.

Guru dasa: Then he should always be with you.

Prabhupada: I have no objection. He is good preacher in Bengal.

Tamala Krsna: He is famous as an avatara there. They say that there is three avataras of the age. One newspaper reporter reported that there are three avataras of this age. First one is...

Bhavananda: Mao Tse Tung of China, Satya Sai Baba from the South...

Tamala Krsna: And Bhavananda Goswami of Mayapura. (laughter)

Bhavananda: (laughing) I was an avatara.

Tamala Krsna: And I have seen practically, even if they don't regard him as an avatara, I was amazed, Prabhupada, that people come and they ask, "Where's Bhavananda Goswami?" And they look everywhere for him, and then they all bow down. He is famous. Simply because he performed strict catur-masya, so many people took notice.

Guru dasa: He has descended to give you massage. (Bhavananda is massaging Srila Prabhupada?) (laughter)

Bhavananda: I think this side is no longer sore.

Prabhupada: Yes. Striking on the bone, so for an old man striking on the bone is very harmful.

Guru dasa: Everybody sends their well-wishes to you, in Vrndavana and everywhere.

Prabhupada: Thank you.

Guru dasa: They all pray for you. They are all well-wishing. When they heard you were going to Manipur, one man said, "Manipur is saved." He said that.

Prabhupada: Wherever there is Krsna, that is saved. So when you are returning?

Guru dasa: I will be leaving here tomorrow. Then I am going to Delhi to get visa from India side to Poland, because it is better. And then I'll go. So... (offers obeisances to Srila Prabhupada) Thank you very much. [break]

Gargamuni: ...from one very important Hindi scholar, and he is Dr. V. P. Singh, M.A. Hindi, M.A. Sanskrit, Ph.D. literature, and he's the senior professor and head of the department of Hindi, and Dean of Faculty of Arts of Benares Hindi University at Benares. So he writes about your Hindi Bhagavatam, which has just come out: "It gives me great pleasure to review these publications of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. Especially I am appreciating this Hindi edition of the Srimad-Bhagavatam, complete with original Sanskrit text, word-for-word synonyms, and a marvelously lucid Hindi translation. In addition, having read thorough portions of the purports, which in my opinion reflect the vast erudition of the genius of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, I am discovering an unequaled body of literature in terms of scholastic quality and devotional impact both. The real meaning of such bhakti literature can only be disclosed by one who is a truly devotee and a saint. The evidence of these qualities in Swami Bhaktivedanta are highly apparent because of his great dedication and success in spreading the message of the Bhagavata all over the world, and creating thousands of foreign bhaktas who aptly deserve the title of Vaisnava Brahmana, due to their strict practice, devotion and learning."

Prabhupada: Ah, very good.

Gargamuni: "I am very proud to have the acquaintance of such a saintly devotees of ISKCON, who have such an addition of the Srimad-Bhagavatam in our library. I have also...."

Prabhupada: So he will get order anywhere if you present this.

Gargamuni: Yes. "I have also found the Hindi book Isopanisad to be of excellent quality. I am hoping that every sincere seeker of truth and higher knowledge will find repose in the books of Swami Bhaktivedanta." Signed, V. P. Singh, Professor and Head of the Department of Hindi, Benares Hindu University.

Prabhupada: It is a very important document. It is written nicely.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: And print it. Wherever you go, you'll get order.

Gargamuni: Yes. Especially now the new prime minister is emphasizing Hindi literature and the study of the Vedas.

Prabhupada: And send him one copy.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: Request him that introduce this Hindi Bhagavatam to all government officers.

Gargamuni: One of our parties have just returned, and they have secured many new orders from factories, Raukala Steel Factory in Raukala.

Prabhupada: In Hindi?

Gargamuni: No, Hindi they did not have. They did not have any sample copies. This was done by another party who were in U.P.

Prabhupada: Very good.

Giriraja: I spoke to Mr. Rajda on the telephone this morning. So he has already spoken to the Prime Minister about your meeting, and the Prime Minister gladly accepted.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Giriraja: So he told him that you weren't able to come to Delhi now. So I told him that he should again speak to him that when he comes to Bombay, he can meet you here. So Mr. Rajda said that there is no difficulty in arranging that, and that he would speak to the Prime Minister today.

Prabhupada: He wants me to meet there in Delhi.

Giriraja: No. He is going to arrange for the Prime Minister to meet you here in Bombay, at Juhu.

Prabhupada: Immediately one copy send to Mr. Rajda.

Giriraja: Now Mr. Rajda is coming tomorrow for one day.

Prabhupada: So let him meet me, appoint him, give him some time. Invite him for prasadam. With his associates.

Giriraja: He is coming in the morning and leaving in the evening.

Prabhupada: So daytime he can take...

Tamala Krsna: Lunch prasadam.

Giriraja: Well, see he's coming because he is a leader in the municipal corporation, and tomorrow they are electing the new mayor. So I was thinking that probably on the way to the airport in the evening we could invite him to stop here.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Giriraja: Otherwise, he is coming back on the 8th to spend about a week here.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Giriraja: But he is very enthusiastic.

Prabhupada: Very good. He is a good boy.

Giriraja: He said, "I am all out for this movement. I am all out for Swami Prabhupada."

Prabhupada: Send him this remark from the chief minister. He'll so much appreciate.

Giriraja: Yes.

Prabhupada: Everyone is appreciating this movement. Gradually, they will appreciate.

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, we saved twenty-five copies of that Times of India article about the court case in New York. Is there something you want done with those twenty-five articles?

Prabhupada: Some of them should be sent to the municipal chairman, Vrndavana.

Gargamuni: They should be used by our preachers, 'cause many times we have met persons who have said, "I heard you have been thrown out of America." A lot of people say that.

Tamala Krsna: We can give you a few.

Gargamuni: So they should be used to show, "No, we are bona fide religion."

Tamala Krsna: And also they can be sent to the people who you got help from, Prabhupada. I think you got help from some people in Vrndavana like that municipal...

Prabhupada: That I say.

Tamala Krsna: So the people who gave letters...

Giriraja: I am making a block that will reproduce exactly the article as it appears in the paper that had the...

Gargamuni: Send it as a thank -- you note.

Giriraja: Yes, I am going to. I am going to send it to all the members.

Tamala Krsna: What about to other people around India who we don't have their names? We could have Adi-kesava do that. He should actually do that.

Giriraja: Yeah. Because Prabhupada said that it should be sent to all the parents of devotees. We could send one original to Ramesvara...

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, Adi-kesava Maharaja has at least a couple hundred letters from people in groups in India, from Vrndavana, all over the country. I think I could send him a copy of this article and he could send a thank -- you letter along with this article to each of them, thanking them for their help. They appreciate it, coming from America, that the president of the New York center himself wrote them.

Gargamuni: I just returned from Calcutta, and they are expecting you to arrive tomorrow morning by plane.

Prabhupada: Where?

Gargamuni: In Calcutta.

Prabhupada: Why?

Gargamuni: Because they said that when you left Calcutta that you would come back within two weeks, on April 4th, to Calcutta.

Prabhupada: Well, because I was going to Manipur.

Gargamuni: So I told them that as far as I know there was no plan of Your Divine Grace...

Prabhupada: No, because Manipur has not supplied. Otherwise, it was program that I shall come back, and after I shall go to Manipur.

Gargamuni: And Upendra is there, so I told him that he should come. Jayapataka said that the government has approved in principle of the land acquisitions. They would acquire land slowly.

Prabhupada: That doesn't matter.

Gargamuni: Not all at once. But they would acquire this land and if they see that it is being used nicely, then they will give another...

Prabhupada: That doesn't matter.

Gargamuni: He said he'll be sending you a letter.

Prabhupada: This is a great, nice, very... Activities are nice.

Gargamuni: It's auspicious because this book has just come out and already there is great appreciation.

Prabhupada: Those who are after Hindi read. These professional Bhagavata reader, what do they know about Bhagavata? Rasa-lila, that's all. Krsna is kissing Radharani. Bas. That's all. And people take it that it is a sex literature. Vivekananda has said. This rascal Vivekananda has said that Vaisnava religion is sexism, because they see sahajiyas in Vrndavana and Navadvipa. The whole thing was spoiled.

Tamala Krsna: So now they are finished. They actually never even began. The whole thing was a fake.

Prabhupada: Whole Vrndavana is compact of sahajiyas. They'll... Our temple is there now. Here, this certification may be printed in a block letter, and you can, kept in our entrance of Vrndavana temple. People will read it. Is it not good?

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Gargamuni: Can I get a block tomorrow and hang it up?

Giriraja: Yes.

Prabhupada: Similarly, the judgment of high-court, that should be also printed.

Gargamuni: The chief justice.

Tamala Krsna: No, the judgment from New York.

Prabhupada: And respectable gentlemen will understand what is this temple. It is not this ordinary.

Tamala Krsna: In Hyderabad they can do the same. So you are going to get copies made and make a block?

Gargamuni: Oh, yeah, I am going to send a man down today.

Tamala Krsna: Make a block.

Gargamuni: Yeah, for printing. You mean... What kind of a block?

Tamala Krsna: A printing block.

Gargamuni: A printing block, because I am going to send these to all our colleges.

Tamala Krsna: Will you give me a few copies? Send it to the temple to me.

Prabhupada: So how many copies you have printed?

Tamala Krsna: Of Hindi Bhagavatam, how many copies do you have?

Prabhupada: You have to print more copies, at least fifty thousand.

Tamala Krsna: They are going to sell very quickly.

Gargamuni: Gopala has only made soft cover, but the libraries won't take soft cover, so I have asked him to make hardbound also.

Prabhupada: Yes. Do it.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, in America, whatever we make, we always make hardbound for the libraries.

Gargamuni: Yeah, you have to. They won't take softbound.

Tamala Krsna: In America everything we print, we also have to consider special printings for the libraries and standing orders.

Gargamuni: The man at the Sampurnanand Sanskrit Library at BHU, when he saw the Hindi Bhagavatam, he said, "I will order fifty sets for our various sub-libraries." He said, "This is wonderful." Because the only Hindi Bhagavatam is that Gita Press, which is useless. There is no commentary, it is so unattractive.

Prabhupada: Prepared by nondevotees. How you can expect? Bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55]. Without being devotee, who will understand Bhagavatam? It is not so easy. Big, big panditas, they cannot understand Bhagavatam even.

Gargamuni: In BHU all the scholars had great eagerness for this Bhagavatam Hindi, because it is the only one.

Tamala Krsna: Never been done before.

Gargamuni: No, there is only Gita Press.

Tamala Krsna: Very surprising.

Gargamuni: That's all.

Tamala Krsna: But what about in Bengali, there must be...

Prabhupada: No, no, that is rubbish. They do not what is Bhagavata. How they will translate? Professional translation is not. Bhagavata-pado giya bhagavata sthane.(?) "Whose life is Bhagavata, go there and read Bhagavata." That is the recommendation. That is the order of Svarupa Damodara Gosvami. Ordinary men, what they will understand, Bhagavata? Bhagavata is not for ordinary men. Paramo nirmatsaranam satam vastavam vastu vedyam atra [SB 1.1.2]. In the beginning it is said unless one is paramahamsa, he cannot understand. Paramo nirmatsaranam.

Guru dasa: Yes. Tapomaya has taken the boat out. The boat in Bengal, the boat program.

Prabhupada: Oh, that's nice.

Gargamuni: But Jayapataka is asking for Bhavananda to come and give extra inspiration.

Prabhupada: So Bhavananda can go. For my bodily comforts, preaching should not suffer. This can be done somebody else. Preaching is our first program.

Bhavananda: Srila Prabhupada, we have decided last night that when Upendra comes... We sent them a telegram. I'll train him up for a few days and then...

Prabhupada: That's all, that's all. That will be very nice. So call him. You are now popular in Bengal, avatara. (laughter)

Gargamuni: That's common in Bengal. I was seeing in Bangladesh many men were bringing this pamphlet saying, "Oh, this man is the incarnation of Nitai and Gaura. This man is the incarnation of..."

Prabhupada: Very good. Keep that position. When you meet them, "No, no, I am servant of Nitai-Gaura."

Gargamuni: No, that wasn't referring to myself. They were bringing pamphlets of others.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Gargamuni: I was trying to point out that it is common to set up some avatara, some man as avatara. They also called us Gaura-Nitai in Bangladesh, myself and Pusta Krsna, because they never saw white sadhus before in their lives. And because of our light complexion, they referred us to as Gaura-Nitai.

Prabhupada: Yes. So ask Upendra to come. Let him be trained up.

Bhavananda: Ksira-cora-gopinatha is going to put some of your lectures in English script Bengali so I can give lectures. Is that all right?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. They will be very eager to hear from you Bengali. Yes. Now Krsna is giving us so much opportunities. Utilize it. And be steady in your character, in your behavior, in our regulative principles. Then the spiritual strength will be there, and it will be... There is no doubt. Krsna-sakti vina nahe nama-pracara. You must draw the spiritual substance. That is unlimited. Tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam, buddhi-yogam dadami tam [Bg. 10.10]. Immediately. He can make everything possible.

Giriraja: Mr. Rajda also mentioned that he wanted to visit the Krsna-Balarama temple.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Give him good reception.

Giriraja: Actually, I was thinking, after he comes on the 8th, he is going back again on the 14th.

Prabhupada: Immediately inform Vrndavana, our Aksayananda, that this man should be very well received.

Giriraja: I was thinking that unless I go and bring him, he might be too busy with the political affairs.

Prabhupada: So what you are to go? Where you want to go?

Giriraja: So what I was thinking, if you agree, is to go to Delhi for a few days, and he could introduce me to the pious members of Parliament, and then we could organize a whole group, and I could bring them there.

Prabhupada: Do the needful. Go. At least, in India, there must be this spiritual institution. The whole world may take advantage of it. What is this cats' and dogs' race civilization? Is that civilization? Here is civilization, Bhagavad-gita. Basic principles of civilization. So India should maintain this. People may... There are so many big universities. A student may go or may not go, but the university must be maintained. Because there is no student, therefore university closed. No. This Krsna consciousness institution must be maintained for the benefit of the whole world. Mrtyu-samsara-vartmani [Bg. 9.3]. They do not know how nature's law is working.

Gargamuni: These breezes are very nice here, better than, I think, in Mayapura. Many breezes.

Prabhupada: The sea breeze.

Tamala Krsna: It's not so cool on the lower floors -- where you are staying in the office.

Gargamuni: There no, it is hot. This is very good.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Tamala Krsna: In those houses where you were formerly staying, it is not so like this at all.

Prabhupada: Which house?

Tamala Krsna: Your old quarters. You don't get the advantage of the breeze.

Prabhupada: No. Sometimes there is nasty breezes coming.

Gargamuni: That still comes. Every morning at six o'clock we wait for that. Guru dasa was thinking of writing letters to the municipality, signing it in foreign names, that "I am a tourist staying in a hotel, and this smell is coming. Something should be done." Because they should have a pipe back there instead of a river. One of those big round pipes.

Prabhupada: They must doing something.

Gargamuni: The thunder showers have started in Bengal now. So it is not so hot when I was there.

Prabhupada: Kala-vaise.(?) (devotees discuss weather) So get a bank immediately here.

Tamala Krsna: I'll do that first thing in the morning. Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

Gargamuni: All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Jaya. Hare Krsna. (devotees offer obeisances)

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, do you think that you'll be lecturing this evening? I mean, are people going to be here or at the pandal?

Giriraja: I think most people will be at the pandal today. Maybe we could send out invitations and make publicity for next Sunday.

Tamala Krsna: It should be a big thing, prominent. (end)

 
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International. Used with permission.

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