"What Caused Our Coming Here"

Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.8.7
Los Angeles, February 10, 1975

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His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada<br>Founder-Acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness

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Prabhupada: Where is karatala? My karatala is in that... Where is Nitai?

Jayatirtha: It was planned for you to lecture this evening, rather than this morning.
Prabhupada: Management?

Devotee: He thought you were lecturing this evening.

Prabhupada: Evening? Not in the morning?

Pusta Krsna: Where is Nitai?

Prabhupada: I was lecturing in the morning at...

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!

Prabhupada: If you like, I can speak in the evening also.

Devotees: (very loud) Jaya! Haribol!

(Prabhupada sings Jaya Radha-Madhava) [break]

Nitai: (leads chanting) Yad adhatu-mato brahman... [break]

Prabhupada: ...being completely aware of Brahman, the Supreme Absolute Truth, not a bogus. If you want to receive knowledge, then you must approach a guru who is brahma-nistham. That is the qualification of guru. Brahman, brahmany upasamasrayam. These words are there. He is living in Brahman, Absolute Truth. He has no other business. That is guru.

tad viddhi pranipatena
pariprasnena sevaya
upadeksyanti te jnanam
jnaninas tattva-darsinah
 [Bg. 4.34]

Tattva-darsinah, "who has seen the truth," not imagination. He cannot be guru. Who has actually seen, tattva-darsinah... These are the injunction in the sastras, and Pariksit Maharaja is strictly following the same principles and asking Sukadeva Gosvami, bhavanto janate yatha: "As you have learned from your predecessor." So that is perfect knowledge. The knowledge is coming from Krsna. Krsna is all-perfect, and Arjuna is hearing directly from Him, and the statement of Arjuna is there in the Bhagavad-gita. He understands that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead; that is, he acquired knowledge from Krsna.

So here the question is... This question is almost inquired by intelligent persons, that "We have come to this material world and suffering, but the living entity is part and parcel of Krsna, or God. How he has come to this material world?" That is very intelligent question. Therefore it is said here, yadrcchaya: "It is automatically, by nature's law," or hetuna, "or there is some cause? Whether there is any cause about the living entities coming down in this material world? Which one is correct?" So without any cause, there cannot be anything. That is logic. And the rascal philosopher's statement, "It happened automatically. There was a chunk, and the creation came...," this is rascal's philosophy. Jagad ahur anisvaram [Bg. 16.8]. The rascals, they do not accept that there is a cause of this creation. That they do not understand. They do not know, and they theorize. You'll find mostly in the Western countries all these philosophers... The Darwin's theory... He cannot give any reasonable cause. Some theory: "It may be, perhaps, for millions of years there was no..." Speculate. And he admits that "Whatever I am presenting, it is all my speculation." We have seen his letter, some, from 150 years ago. He wrote a letter to a friend. He admitted that "Whatever I am presenting, that is speculation." But science is not speculation. Science cannot be speculation. That is not science. "Two plus two equal to four" -- this is science. And if you speculate -- "Two plus two equal to five" or "Two plus two equal to three" -- that is not science.

So the science of Krsna is not speculation. It is exactly science. Tad-vijnanam. Tad-vijnanam. Tad-vijnanartham. Vijnana means science, not speculation. So one should understand God scientifically. That is required, not imagination. The Mayavadi philosophers, they say, "You can imagine your God." This is rascaldom. How you can imagine your God? God is God. God means the supreme controller, the Supreme Being. In the dictionary you'll find this word: "God means the Supreme Being." He is also a being like us, individual. Just like we are here face to face. You are one individual; I am one individual. We are talking or hearing. Similarly, God is also individual. Just like Krsna said,

imam vivasvate yogam
proktavan aham avyayam
vivasvan manave praha
manur iksvakave 'bravit
 [Bg. 4.1]

So He's individual person. He instructed the sun-god millions and millions of years ago. So Arjuna inquired, "How it is possible that millions of years ago...? Because You are my contemporary. You are of the same age." So Krsna said that "Millions of millions of years ago, when I spoke this philosophy to the sun-god, you were also present because you are My intimate friend. Whenever I descend, you are also there. But the difference is that you have forgotten; I remember that I said like this."

So that is the difference between Krsna and ordinary living being. Krsna remembers everything, knows everything. Vedaham samatitani: [Bg. 7.26] "I know everything." That is Krsna. But we do not know. That is the difference. Krsna is not impersonal. He's also a person, but He is not a person like us, like you, like me. His personality is supreme. Nobody is greater than Him. Na tasya karyam karanam ca vidyate na tat-samas cabhyadhikas ca drsyate. These are the Vedic information. He's individual, but He has nothing to do. He's such individual. Just like Krsna is here. The whole world is going on under Krsna's direction, but He has nothing to do. He's enjoying with Srimati Radharani. That is Krsna's position. Anandamayo 'bhyasat (Vedanta-sutra 1.1.12). He has to create one universe or destroy one universe -- He hasn't to take any attention. He's engaged in His pleasure -- Krsna, the reservoir of pleasure. His pleasure is never disturbed by all these activities. He's so perfect. Just like in our society, we are not perfect. Still, you boys and girls, you love me. Whatever I say, immediately done. So if an ordinary person like me, he can do things without his personal endeavor, how far..., how Krsna is great, that na tat-samah, there is nobody equal to Him. How great He is, how powerful He is, you can just imagine. If the ordinary person can have some power that he hasn't got to do anything personally -- simply by his desire everything is done -- so why not Krsna also? Where is the difficulty?

In the Bible I think it is said, "God said, 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation." Is it not? So that is Krsna. He simple desires, "Let there be creation," and immediately everything is ready. That is Krsna. How it is being done? Automatically? No automatically. It is done regularly, as you do. Hetuna: there is cause. But the original cause is Krsna's desire. Sarva-karana-karanam [Bs. 5.1].

isvarah paramah krsnah
anadir adir govindah
 [Bs. 5.1]

The original desire is Krsna's. What we are doing also, that is also... The original cause is Krsna. We cannot do anything independently. If I go to heaven or go to hell, that is also sanctioned by Krsna. Without Krsna's desire I cannot do anything. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita:

sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisto
mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca
vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo
vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham
 [Bg. 15.15]

So this theory, that the world is going automatically or we have come into this material world without any reason, without any cause... Kim anyat kama-haitukam. They say, the rascals say, that our coming to this material world is to the lusty desires of the father and mother. Therefore the child has no meaning. It is a by-product of the lusty desire. So if I don't want it, kill it. Destroy it. This is going on. But that is not the fact. The child has come into the womb of the mother, a particular type of mother -- not the sa..., every mother is producing the same type of child. No. Why? There is cause. There is cause, hetuna. Without cause there cannot be anything. Karmana daiva-netrena [SB 3.31.1], the cause is his activities. According to the activities, he is producing the next body automatically. That is automatically. But there is cause, his activity.

That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita: karanam guna-sango 'sya sad-asad-janma-yonisu [Bg. 13.22]. Karanam. Karanam means cause. What is the cause? The cause is that as he's associating with a particular type of the modes of nature, sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna... If he's associating with tamo-guna, then next life he's preparing in the lower animal kingdoms or most degraded family. Jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha adho gacchanti tamasah. If one is associating with tamo-guna, ignorance -- no knowledge, in the darkness -- then he is gliding down to the lower species of life: animal, birds, beast, trees, plants, aquatics, insects, serpents, so many. Adho gacchanti. Adhah means going down. Tamasah. And urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah [Bg. 14.18]. Those who are in the goodness, those who are associating with the modes of material nature in goodness, just like satyam samo damas titiksa arjavam, jnanam vijnanam astikyam brahma-karma svabhava-jam [Bg. 18.42], brahminical qualification, truthful, controlling the mind, controlling the senses, simplicity, tolerant, full faith in scripture and God, full knowledge, practical application of knowledge... This is called sattva-guna. So if you cultivate sattva-guna, then you are elevated to the higher planetary system. Why there are so many planets? The moon planet, the sun planet, so brilliant planets -- why there are? There are also different places for different kinds of living creature. There is hetu. There is cause. And similarly, rajo-guna, passionate...

So madhye tisthanti rajasah. So there is hetu. Hetu means cause. Not without cause. Nobody has taken birth in this material world without any cause. And according to the cause, the particular type of body is built up. Karmana daiva-netrena [SB 3.31.1]. A big science there is. Unfortunately there is no education for this science. Maybe in future they will take interest. As we are publishing the books and going to the universities and to the professors, there may be. There is possibility now. Otherwise these rascals did not know what is this science. They did not care. Big, big professors, big, big scientists, they are putting the theories that life has come from chemicals, chemical evolution, and they are getting Nobel Prize. And if they are offered that "Take these chemicals. Produce a life," they'll deny.

So this ignorance is going on. Therefore for future guidance, Pariksit Maharaja inquired this question, that "How the living entity got this body, material body? Whether it is automatically, without any cause, or with cause?" But with cause... It will be explained. It is not... When the cause is there... Just like if you infect some disease, automatically you'll suffer from the disease. It will come automatically. That is automatically. But your becoming infected, that is cause. So if you become cautious not to be infected, then the cause of lower birth or suffering you can avoid. Therefore we have started this society, society. Society means that you'll get here the cause of being elevated. Just like there are so many societies, equal class of men. "Birds of the same feather flock together." So here is a society. Who will flock here? Who will come here? Because this society is meant for liberation... People are suffering so much on account of material condition of life. Nobody is happy. That is a fact. But because they are in ignorance, they are accepting unhappiness as happiness. This is called maya. This is called maya.

Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. This maya is very much manifest in sex life. They accept the sex life is very nice, but after that, there is so many distresses. Legal or illegal, it doesn't matter. Legal distresses or illegal distresses, but it is distress. Every one of us, we know. Therefore everything -- to make the best use of a bad bargain. We have got this material body. The cause was there. The cause was there that because we wanted to enjoy and did not like to serve Krsna. This is the cause. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. We are serving Krsna. That is our, I mean to say, place, constitutional position, to serve Krsna, but sometimes we desire: "Why shall I serve Krsna? Why shall I serve the spiritual master? I shall enjoy. I shall enjoy." But that enjoyment was there by serving Krsna, but he wanted to become enjoyer independent of Krsna. That is the cause of falldown. With Krsna, you can enjoy very nicely. You have seen the picture, how with Krsna the gopis are nicely dancing, enjoying; the cowherd boys are playing. Enjoy with Krsna, that is your real enjoyment. But without Krsna, when you want to enjoy, that is maya. That is maya.

So maya is there always, and... Because unless there is darkness, you cannot appreciate the quality of brightness; therefore Krsna has created darkness, maya also, so that you can appreciate what is brightness. Two things are required. Without brightness, the darkness cannot be appreciated, and darkness... Without darkness, the brightness cannot be appreciated. The two things are there, side by side. Just like there is sunlight, and here is shadow, side by side. You can remain within the shadow; you can remain within the sunshine. That is your choice. If we remain in the darkness, then our life is miserable, and if we remain in the light, brightness... Therefore Vedic literature instructs us, tamasi ma: "Don't remain in the dark." Jyotir gama: "Go to the light." So this attempt, Krsna consciousness movement, is an attempt to bring people from darkness to the light. So don't misuse this opportunity. Some way or other, you have come in contact with this movement. Properly utilize it. Don't go to the darkness. Always remain in bright light.

Thank you very much. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.8.7 -- Los Angeles, February 10, 1975

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International. Used with permission.

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