"How have we fallen in this material world?"

Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.1
Tokyo, April 20, 1972

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His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada<br>Founder-Acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness 

Pradyumna: (chanting verse) Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Devotees: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Prabhupada: It is sandhi? Na ghateta artha. It has been lost? Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Again, recite the whole sloka.

Pradyumna: (devotees repeating)

sri suka uvaca
atma-mayam rte rajan
na ghatetartha-sambandhah
svapna-drastur ivanjasa
 [SB 2.9.1]

Svapna. Drastur. Svapna-drastur. Iva. Anjasa. Ivanjasa.

Prabhupada: Svapna-drastur ivanjasa.

Pradyumna: Svapna-drastur ivanjasa.

Prabhupada: Now read again.

Pradyumna: Whole thing?

Prabhupada: No, this same verse. Practice it. In this way you practice one mantra daily. Each mantra will purify you hundred yards daily. Go forward. These mantras are very powerful, given by Vyasadeva Gosvami, vibrated. And spoken by... Suka-mukhad drava-samyutamrtam. That is explained in the beginning. Just like a ripened fruit in the tree is already very sweet, and if it is touched by the beak of the parrot, it becomes sweeter. These are natural course. If the parrot touches the fruit, he cuts little by his beak, beak. Beak, you call beak? Then it becomes still sweeter. Suka-mukhad drava-samyutam. Similarly, Srimad-Bhagavatam is already sublime, transcendental. And when it is spoken through the mouth of Sukadeva Gosvami, it becomes still sweet, just like the fruit. The parrot is also called suka. It is called suka-paksi, suka bird. So this comparison is given. As the fruit becomes still sweeter by the touch of the beak of the parrot, similarly, Sukadeva Gosvami, because it is already spoken by Vyasadeva, ripened fruit, the experienced contribution of Vyasadeva, all the Vedic literatures, but when it is spoken through the parampara system of Sukadeva Gosvami, it becomes still sweeter.

Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommended to study Srimad-Bhagavatam from bhagavatam. Bhagavata para giya bhagavata sthane. Bhagavata means the grantha-bhagavata, book bhagavata... Bhagavata means about Krsna. Bhagavan is Krsna. And anything in relationship with Krsna is called Bhagavata. So the devotee is also in relationship with Krsna. He is also called bhagavata. Maha-bhagavata. Those who are highly advanced, or first-class devotees, they are called maha-bhagavata. So this Bhagavatam, it is the essence of the Vedic knowledge and when it is received through the parampara system of pure devotee, then it becomes still more sweet than before. That is the purport.

So we should try to learn, get it by heart, at least one sloka, two slokas in a week. And if we chant that... Just like you are chanting so many songs, similarly, if we chant one or two verses of Srimad-Bhagavatam, that will make you very quickly advanced for spiritual realization. We are therefore taking so much trouble to get this transliteration, the meaning, so that the reader may take advanced step, full advantage of the mantra. It is not that to show some scholarship, that "I know so much Sanskrit." No. It is just offered with humility to learn the mantra because one who will chant the mantra... They are all transcendental vibration. Just Hare Krsna mantra... This is maha-mantra, but they are also mantras, all the verses from Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, spoken by Krsna, spoken by... Bhagavata also, spoken by Krsna. Vyasadeva is incarnation of Krsna. They're also mantras, infallible instructions. So try to get it by heart, chanting. Either you chant by seeing the book or get it by heart, it is all the same. But try to chant one, two slokas daily. Chant.

Pradyumna: (chants with devotees responding)

sri suka uvaca
atma-mayam rte rajan
na ghatetartha-sambandhah...
 [SB 2.9.1]

Prabhupada: (correcting) Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Like that. It is written like that?

Pradyumna: Ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Prabhupada: artha, artha separated?

Pradyumna: No. Together. Ghatetartha.

Prabhupada: No. Ghatetartha-sambandhah. It should, should not be. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Like that. Ta should be long. Ta. Ghateta artha-sambandhah. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Is that all right?

Pradyumna: Yes.

Prabhupada: So pronounce like that.

Pradyumna: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Prabhupada: Loud. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Pradyumna: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Prabhupada: Yes. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Devotees: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.

Pradyumna: Svapna-drastur ivanjasa.

Prabhupada: Oh. Again pronounce.

Pradyumna: Sri suka uvaca (repeats verse)

Prabhupada: Very important verse. Now we shall go to the words and meaning. Again recite. Sri suka uvaca.

Devotees: (repeat verse)

Prabhupada: Once again. Do it again.

Pradyumna: (repeats verse)

Prabhupada: Again. (devotees repeat verse again) Anyone can recite? All right. See the book and recite.

Syamasundara: Sri-suka uvaca atma-mayam rte rajan parasyanubhavatmanah.

Prabhupada: Parasya. The transliteration is the long a. You have seen? You just try to follow the transliteration. That will be easier.

Syamasundara: Parasyanu...

Prabhupada: Parasyanubhava, bhavatmanah. Atma.

Syamasundara: Yes. Long a over a. Atmanah.

Prabhupada: Yes. Now, beginning.

Syamasundara: Parasyanu...

Prabhupada: No. First line. (devotees repeating)

Syamasundara: Sri suka uvaca atma-mayam rte rajan parasyanubhavatmanah.

Prabhupada: Read it again.

Syamasundara: Sri suka uvaca atma-mayam rte rajan parasyanubhavatmanah na ghatetartha...

Prabhupada: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Svapna-drastur ivanjasa. Next. Next. You read. Go on. One after another. (continues devotee reciting, Prabhupada correcting) You read the transliteration. The thing is hearing the meter and repeat. That's all. The writing is already there, transliteration. Simply you have to hear the written. Just like you have chanted so many verses, songs, by hearing. The hearing is very important. A child learns another language simply by hearing, pronunciation, hearing. That is natural. If we hear one thing repeatedly, you will learn. You will learn. So one has to hear little attentively. Then it will be easy. There is no difficulty. Just like you are singing our song in tune, (sings) samsara-davanala-lidha-loka **. This is by hearing. So simply you have to hear. Therefore whole Vedic sastra is called sruti. It is a process of hearing. (coughing) This is a disease of old age. These are the warnings that the body is getting rotten. Go on. (recitation continues) Next. Each one of you. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah svapna-drastur ivanjasa. What is the anjasa spelling?

Devotee: I-v-a-n-j-a-s-a. Ivanjasa.

Prabhupada: Long a or short a?

Devotee: Long a.

Prabhupada: Yes. Ivanjasa. Anjasa. Anjasa means wholesale. Go on. (recitation and corrections continue) Na ghateta artha sambandhah, combined together it becomes na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Tartha. What is the spelling? Tartha?

Devotee: T, long a, r-t-h-a.

Prabhupada: Of tha? What is the...?

Devotee: T-a-r-t-h-a. Na ghata...

Prabhupada: T-h-a. There must be r.

Pradyumna: Yes. Ghatetartha. G-h-a-t-e-t-a-r...

Prabhupada: T-a-r. Yes. T-a, artha. So you were missing that r. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. All right. Next. (recitation continues) Get it next. Come here. So you have to study like that. So many slokas, I am taking so much labor. If you do not read it carefully... It is not for that I am making business, for selling only, and not for my students. You must all read like this, practice. Why so much trouble is being taken, word to word meaning and then transliteration? If you chant this mantra, that vibration will cleanse the atmosphere. And wherever you go, in any part of the world, if you can chant this mantra, oh, you'll be received like God. It is so nice. And in India he'll actually receive like Gods if you chant this mantra. They will so offer their respects, so many. Veda-mantra. Next chant. (another devotee recites verse) Very good. Next, next. Bhanu prabhu (Bhanu recites) Thank you very much. He has pronounced very nicely. So he will teach you. Yes. Next. (another devotee recites verse) Very good. (another devotee recites verse) Very good. Yes. In this way, each one of you, you chant and others will follow. Then one or two days, you get the sloka by heart. You can chant. It is not difficult. Now read the word meanings and translation.

Karandhara: "Sri-sukah uvaca -- Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said; atma --  the Supreme Personality of Godhead; mayam -- the energy; rte --  without; rajan -- O King..."

Prabhupada: Rajan.

Karandhara: Rajan -- O King.

Prabhupada: It is address, addressing. Nominative is raja and addressive is rajan. Go on.

Karandhara: Parasyasya...

Prabhupada: Parasya.

Karandhara: Parasya.

Prabhupada: Parasya. Yes.

Karandhara: "Parasya -- of the pure soul; anubhava-atmanah --  of the purely conscious; na -- never; ghateta -- it can so happen; artha -- meaning; sambandhah -- relation with the material body; svapna -- dream; drastuh -- of the seer; iva -- like it; anjasa -- completely."

Prabhupada: Anjasa.

Karandhara: "Anjasa -- completely. Translation: Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said: O King, unless one is influenced by the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no meaning to the relationship of the pure soul in pure consciousness with the material body. It is just like the dreamer seeing his own body working."

Prabhupada: So, purport?

Karandhara: "Purport. The question of Maharaja Pariksit is perfectly answered as to how a living entity began his material life, although he is apart from the material body and the mind."

Prabhupada: It is a very important question. Pariksit Maharaja inquired... Many people inquired that "How the living entity was with Krsna, he became fallen in this material world?" Is not done? This question is raised? So this question is answered here, that "How the living entity who was with Krsna became fallen down in contact with this material qualities?" So this is the answer. Read the translation.

Karandhara: "Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said: O king, unless one is influenced by the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead..."

Prabhupada: It is simply the influence of the material energy, nothing. Actually he has not fallen. Another example given is given. Just like the moon is covered with scattered cloud, the passing cloud. You have seen. Everyone has experience. The cloud passes, and it appears that the moon is moving. Have you seen this?

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupada: Actually the moon is not moving. It is a maya, illusion. It appears that the moon is moving. But similarly, the living entity, because he is spiritual spark of the Supreme, it has not fallen. It has not fallen. But he is thinking, "I am fallen. I am material." That is the reason. He is thinking, "I am this body." Actually the body has no connection with me. That is experienced, that the body has no connection with the soul. The body is changing, dying. But I am the same. The same example, the moon: The cloud is passing over in different way. The moon is far away from the cloud, and it has nothing to do with the cloud, but it appears the moon is moving. [break] Try to understand. Have questions and answer. It is very important thing. Atma-mayam rte rajan. Except atma-maya, the illusory energy... It is the maneuver or handling of the illusory energy of Krsna. This illusory energy develops when we forget Krsna. That's all. It is... In other words, this illusory identification of me with the body is simply due to my forgetfulness. We wanted to forget, we wanted to give up Krsna and wanted to enjoy this material world. Therefore Krsna is giving us...

Just like when you play some part in a drama, if you feel that "I am king," then you can talk very nicely. And if you feel that "I am Karandhara," then you cannot play nicely king. Is it not? Feeling must be there. If you are playing the part of a king, then you must have the same courage and belief that "I am king." You have to forget that you are Karandhara. Then your part will be very nicely played. It will be appreciated. But if you think simultaneously that "I am Karandhara. I am taking, playing the part of the king," then you cannot play. So because we wanted to play the part of Krsna, enjoyer, Krsna is giving us chance that "You feel like Me." -- "I am king. I am Krsna. I am God." (laughter) All these rascals, those who are feeling like that, "I am master. I am king. I am Krsna. I am God," they are all simply in that feeling only. That's all. And this feeling is created by Krsna: "All right. You want to play the part of a king. I shall train you in such a way." Just like director means, dramatic director means, he creates a feeling. His direction is nothing but how to feel.

Sometimes we played in our younger age Caitanya-lila. I introduced. And one big director, Amrtalal Chosa, he was just like grandfather. He was one of the, just like in England Shakespeare and others, big, big dramatic, well-known persons. This Amrtalal Chosa and Girish Chandra Chosa, they introduced in India theatric... So we called him to give us direction. He was giving us direction, and repeatedly he was telling that "You feel like that," especially to me. "You feel like that." So actually, when we played according to his direction, the audience were all crying. And we could not understand how they cried. We could not understand. On the stage when we played, it was so perfect that all audience were crying. Actually we saw they were smearing over their eyes with... But the whole thing is artificial, but the effect to the audience became so nice. So similarly, we are... Actually we have nothing to do with this material world, But we have been trained by the illusory energy in such a way that we are thinking, "I am Indian. I am American. I am this. I am that. I am brahmana. I am sudra. I have to do this. I have got so much duty," all these illusions, simply thinking. We have nothing to do with all this nonsense, but still, we are taking it very serious. "I have to do like that. I have to do like that. I am this. I am that." That's all. That is explained. Atma-mayam rte rajan: "Except the influence of that atma-maya, the illusory energy of Krsna..." Atma-maya. Read. Atma-mayam rte rajan parasyanu. Read it?

Karandhara: Parasyanubhavatmanah.

Prabhupada: Parasyanubhavatmanah. Na ghateta artha-sambandha. There cannot be any relation at all. Na ghateta. Cannot be. Artha sambandhah. Svapna-drastur ivanjasa. The very exact example is given, svapna-drastuh. Just like a man seeing dream: "Oh, there is tiger, tiger, tiger, tiger! Save me!" He is crying. Another man is, "Where is tiger? Why you are crying? Where is tiger?" But he, in the dream, he is actually feeling: "The tiger has attacked me." Therefore this example is given, na ghatetartha-sambandhah. There cannot be any meaning of this relationship except like a man dreaming and he is creating a situation. He is dreaming there is a tiger and he is creating a situation, fearful situation. Actually there is no cause of fear. There is no tiger. That situation is created by dream. Actually there is no tiger. Similarly we have created this material world and activity. People are running, "Oh..., sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh," identifying that "Oh, I am the manager. I am the factory owner. I am this, I am that. We have got his politics. We have to defeat such competitors." All these things are created exactly like that, svapna-drastur ivanjasa, just like a man is creating his particular situation simply by dream. That's all.

So the answer is, when somebody asks you that "When one has become in contact with this material nature?" He has not become in contact. He is thinking by the influence of the external energy. Just like the same example: A man is dreaming; there is no contact with tiger. Actually he has no contact with that. Similarly, actually we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. But we have created a situation that we are, become... Try to understand understand. It is very important point. We have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation, Krsna has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate Krsna, so Krsna has given an opportunity: "All right. Imitate. You want to be imitation king in the stage. So feel like this. Play like this. Do like this. People will applaud. 'Oh, a very nice king, very nice.' " That is the... So everyone in this material world, they are playing some part. They wanted, "I want to be prime minister." "All right." "I want to become very big business magnate." "I want to be leader." "I want to be a philosopher." "I want to be a scientist." So all this nonsense, they are trying to play -- Krsna is giving him the opportunity: "All right." But it is a nonsense, all nonsense. Simple dreaming. Just like you are dreaming. Next moment when the dream is gone, everything is finished. No more tiger, no more jungle, no more... Everything is finished. Similarly, so long this body is continuing, I am thinking, "I am a responsible leader, I am this, I am that." But as soon as this body is finished, oh, these are (indistinct) gone.

Sarva-haras caham. The death means... Krsna says, "I am death. I take it away, all, everything. Gone." Now just think of our past life. Suppose I was a king or something like that. From Bhrgu-samhita it was ascertained. They said -- I do not know -- that I was a big physician in my last life, very spotless character, no sins, like that. He explained me. So it may be. But actually I have no remembrance that I was a physician. So what do we know? I might have been a very big physician, influential physician, having a good practice, but where is all...? All gone. So this situation, our contact with matter, is just like dream. Actually we are not fallen. Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Krsna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, "I have nothing to do with. I am simply Krsna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all," immediately he becomes liberated. Exactly like that: as soon as you... Sometimes we do that. When the fearful dreaming becomes too much intolerable, we break the dream. We break the dream when it becomes intolerable. Similarly, we can break this material connection at any moment as soon as we come to the point of Krsna conscious. "Oh, Krsna is my eternal master. I am His servant." That's all. This is the way. Actually we are not fallen. There cannot be any fallen. The same example: Actually there is no tiger; it is dreaming. Similarly, our fallen condition is also dreaming. We are not fallen. We can simply give up that illusory condition at any moment. At any moment. So if you study all these verses very nicely, you get all this knowledge quickly. Now what is the purport? Come on.

Karandhara: "The spirit soul is distinct from the material conception of his life."

Prabhupada: Yes. Distinct. Always distinct. Next?

Karandhara: "But he is absorbed in such a material conception because of being influenced by the external energy of the Lord, called atma-maya. This is already explained in the First Canto in connection with Vyasadeva's realization of the Supreme Lord and His external energy. The external energy is controlled by the Lord and the living entities are controlled by the external energy."

Prabhupada: Krsna says, mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te: [Bg. 7.14] "As soon as one surrenders unto Me, he has no more illusion." Mayam etam taranti. Immediately. So people are conditioned, encaged. So many big, big words The Mayavadis, they are undergoing austerities or penances just to become liberated. Yogis, they are also trying to become one. So many endeavors are going on. But the simple process is, as soon as you surrender, that you are not fallen, "It was illusion. I was dreaming. I am Krsna's," finished. All gone. "I am Krsna's. I am Krsna's eternal servant. These are all nonsense" -- he immediately becomes liberated. Just try to understand. Immediately, within a second. Liberation can be attained within a second, provided we abide by the order of Krsna. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is the position. We are not fallen. We are thinking fallen. So we have to give up this nonsense thinking. Then we are liberated. There is no Is there any difficulty to understand? Just see how important this verse. It is already there, but you are not reading. Each verse, read every day carefully. Try to assimilate, understand, and you will get more profit, every day, hundred yards forward, hundred yards forward, yes. They are so important verses. How nicely composed by Vyasadeva. In two lines the whole thing is explained. This is called sastra. In two lines. Then read the purport.

Karandhara: "The external energy is controlled by the Lord and the living entities are controlled by the external energy by the will of the Lord. Therefore, although the living entity is purely conscious in his pure state, he is subordinate to the will of the Lord, being influenced by the external energy of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gita also the same thing is confirmed, that the Lord is present within the heart of every living entity and all consciousness and forgetfulness of the living entity are influenced by the Lord."

Prabhupada: Yes. Because... Now, people may say that, "Why Krsna within the heart gives one type of consciousness to one, and another type of consciousness...?" Because I wanted. I wanted to forget Krsna, so Krsna is giving consciousness: "All right, you can forget Me in this way." That is His kindness. Just like the Mayavadis, the so-called yogis and karmis, they wanted to forget. Krsna is giving him intelligence. "All right. You forget Me like this." That's all. Go on. And if you want to again revive your relationship, Krsna will give you intelligence. Buddhi-yogam dadami tam yena mam upayanti te: "I shall give intelligence." So Krsna is... Ye yatha mam prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. As you want, Krsna gives you facility. Go on.

Karandhara: "Now the next question will automatically be made as to why the Lord influences the living entity to such consciousness and forgetfulness. The answer is that the Lord clearly wishes that every living entity be engaged in his pure consciousness as the part and parcel of the Lord, and thus be engaged in loving service of the Lord as he is constitutionally made. But because the living entity is partially independent also, he may not be willing to serve the Lord, but may try to become independent as the Lord is. The whole nondevotee class of living entities are all desirous of becoming equally as powerful as the Lord, although they are not fit to become so. The living entities are..."

Prabhupada: They will never be God, but we see so many persons. By the influence of the illusory energy they think, "I am God. I am God. I shall become God by pressing my nose like this, doing this." So this is going on. They will never be able. That is not possible. Otherwise, there is no meaning of God. If everyone can become God, then there is no meaning of God. But by influence of... Just like karmis are saying "I shall become millionaire. I shall become trillionaire. I shall become head of the state. I shall become prime minister." This struggle, this is another struggle: "I shall become God." This is another struggle. But it is illusion. It is illusion. So Krsna gives them opportunity, some yogic success. Just like in India there is a rascal. He makes like that, and there is immediately some gold. And people become after him: "Oh, he is God. He is God." By producing a little gold, he becomes God. Another yogi, he gives immediately two rasagulla. So by producing two rasagulla, four annas' worth, he becomes God. You see? This is illusion. These rascals, they do not know that, "What is this rasagulla, two rasagulla? I can purchase from the market for four annas. So he is becoming God by four annas?" But they have no sense. "Oh, he is God. He can produce rasagulla." Rasagulla I can produce in our kitchen. But they are so rascal. "Oh, wonderful." So the yogic siddhis... So Krsna gives him some power of yogic siddhi and he thinks that "I have become God," and some flatterers, they also think, "Oh, you are God." The same dream. And as soon as death comes, everything finished, your Godhood and everything finished. Now becomes doghood, come to the stage of doghood. Again, another dream: "I am dog." First of all "I am God," then next stage, "I am dog." This is going on. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Thakura said, keno mayar bose jaccho bhese': "Why you are being washed away by the waves of maya? Just fix up. Stand up." Jiv krsna-das ei viswas korle to ar duhkho nai. You simply remain fixed up on this standpoint, that, "I am eternal servant of Krsna." Then there is no more dream. And if you allow yourself to be washed away, Krsna gives you facility, "All right, come on. Be washed away." Then?

Karandhara: "The living entities are illusioned by the will of the Lord because they wanted to become like Him."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Karandhara: "As a person thinks of becoming a king without possessing the necessary qualifications, similarly, when the living entity desires to become the Lord Himself, he is put in a condition of dreaming that he is a king. Therefore the first sinful will of the living entity is to become the Lord, and the consequent will of the Lord is that the living entity forgets his actual life and thus dreams of the land of utopia where he may become one like the Lord. The child cries to have the moon from the mother and the mother gives the child a mirror to satisfy the crying and disturbing child with the shadow of the moon. Similarly the crying child of the Lord is given over to the shadow of the material world to lord it over as a karmi and to give this up in frustration to become one with the Lord. Both these stages are dreaming illusions only. There is no necessity of tracing out the history when the living entity desired this, but the fact is that as soon as he desired such, he was put under the control of atma-maya by the direction of the Lord. Therefore the living entity in his material condition is dreaming falsely that this is 'mine' and this is 'I.' The dream is that the conditioned soul thinks of his material body as 'I' or falsely thinks that he is the lord and that everything in connection with the material body is 'mine.' Thus in dream only the misconception of 'I and mine' persist life after life. This continues life after life as long as the living entity is not purely conscious of his identity as the subordinate part and parcel of the Lord. In his pure consciousness, however, there is no such misconceived dream. And in that pure conscious state the living entity does not forget that he is never the Lord, but he is eternally the servitor of the Lord in transcendental love."

Prabhupada: That's all.

Devotees: All glories to you Srila Prabhupada. (offer obeisances)

Trivikrama: Srila Prabhupada? You were just saying that we are not fallen. Actually this is an illusion thinking that we are fallen. Yet I read...

Prabhupada: The same example. In dream I am not attacked by the tiger, but I am thinking, "Oh, tiger is there." It is simply dreaming condition.

Trivikrama: But so many Vaisnavas are praying...

Prabhupada: So as soon as you understand that "This is not... I am not in contact with tiger. It is all a dream," then you are delivered. Similarly, as soon as you understand, "All this material condition of life we are simply dreaming; I am actually servant of Krsna," then you are liberated. That is Krsna conscious. If you keep in Krsna consciousness, that "I am eternal servant of Krsna," then you are liberated. Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaa kalpate [Bg. 14.26], Krsna says. Immediately brahma-bhutah. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. He has no more lamentation, no more hankering. Samah sarvesu bhutesu. He can see everyone on equal vision. Because he knows, "Here is also another living entity." He is not a Chinaman. He is a part and parcel of God. He is not a Christian. He is not a Hindu. He is simply thinking like that. So give him Krsna consciousness. That is real benefit, to bring him to the original position. Yes?

Cintamani: If, when we realize Krsna, then we have no more desire, then how can we desire...

Prabhupada: You create desire. If you simply keep this contact with Krsna, then there is no more any other desire than to serve Krsna. That's all.

Trivikrama: This feeling that we have, that we are fallen, that we are very fallen...

Prabhupada: That is also illusion. That is also illusion. You are fallen means you have got some certain desires except service of Krsna. Therefore the conclusion is that if you keep yourself tightly in Krsna's service, there is no question of falling down or there is no question of maya. You see?

Devotee: Even at that state, still the body is affected by the modes of nature. We are experiencing desires.

Prabhupada: You are not experiencing. Your body is experiencing. You are feeling cold due to this body. You are not feeling cold. You are not feeling cold.

Devotee: But I think I am feeling cold.

Prabhupada: You are thinking. That is illusion. That is illusion.

Devotee: So rise above that.

Prabhupada: Yes. But not artificially, but this is the fact. You have to gradually rise to that platform. The fact is this. Just like when you are feverish, actually you are healthy, but it has come. So in the feverish condition you are thinking, "I am now feverish." But this feverish will not, condition, will not stay. You will come to the healthy stage. Therefore don't be disturbed with the feverish condition. Go on with your duty. Don't misidentify, "Now I have become feverish. Everything is finished." No. That is external. It has come; it will go. That is given in the Bhagavad-gita. Matra-sparsas tu kaunteya sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah [Bg. 2.14]. Just like seasonal changes. Sometimes it is very hot, sometimes very cold, sometimes warm. So these are coming and going. So if there is some feeling of pain and pleasure, simply just tolerate it, but don't be absorbed in that thought. That's all. Therefore titiksava. The first symptoms of a saintly person is titiksava, tolerant. Tolerant. So go on reading, go on understanding. Everything will be clear. So next? There is kirtana, or finished? (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.1 -- Tokyo, April 20, 1972

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