"Beyond Sense Perception"

April 17, 1977


His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada<br>Founder-Acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness

Prabhupada: No, you have given the evolution of from fish to plant, plant to insect, bird, animal. That can be little elaborately, evolution. Then human being, full consciousness. Now, this is the chance for understanding God. And if they are still kept in darkness like the animals, that's a dangerous civilization. Refusing the opportunity to the humanity. By knowing this, you can get out of this continual evolutionary process. That is antimaterial world, Vaikuntha world, where you can actually live. Na jayate na mriyate va. He does not take birth, neither dies, and dances with Krsna. That is life. That we are wanting. We are seeking after. It is not possible here. Here you have to go through the evolutionary process again and again if you don't take the opportunity for going back to home, back to... Then it is your misfortune. So this civilization keeping people in their unfortunate condition. Mam aprapya nivartante mrtyu-samsara-vartmani [Bg. 9.3]. This is opportunity to understand God and go back to Him, but that opportunity is being refused. Therefore he is returning again to the same position of birth and death. From animal to man, from man to..., up and down. But dehantara, that is very dangerous. Tatha dehantara, you have to change your body. Stop this. If you are scientist, stop it. Continue as American forever. Why you cannot? Why you are so proud of your so-called scientific education? Then you are under control. You have constructed this skyscraper building. Live here forever. Why don't you live? Kicked out. In the same house can become a cockroach because you have got attachment. "All right. Live here as cockroach." Who can check it? Cockroach is also life. Dehantara. The proprietor becomes cockroach. Can you check it? Nature will do. Now we are proprietor, next life a cockroach. "Live here in your skyscraper building." How much valuable time he has wasted by constructing this skyscraper building. He remains there in the photograph, and actually his life is in the commode. Cockroach. He is living in the commode, and his son's worshiping his photograph. This is... This is called ignorance. Very misleading civilization this is. So we are trying to save everyone from this misleading civilization. This is Krsna consciousness movement. We are trying ourself to be perfect and trying to teach others perfect life. Krsna begins His teaching from this understanding. "You are not this body." This is beginning of Bhagavad-gita. And in the bodily concept of life where is spiritual knowledge? They talk of spiritual, that life is... First of all one has to understand that "I am not this body." Aham brahmasmi. Athato brahma jijnasa. "Then if I am Brahman, then what is my value? So far I have led my bodily concept of life, but I am Brahman?" Then brahma-jijnasa. Athato brahma jijnasa. How Brahman lives, how Brahman is produced, what is his real life. So I think this film will be useful for Svarupa Damodara.

Yadubara: We would like to try to get it in the schools, in high schools and colleges.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. And ask them to read Bhagavad-gita. They will get all information.

Tamala Krsna: The movie should be given out with also a copy of Bhagavad-gita along with it. To be a part of the film.

Prabhupada: You can give in this course(?) Bhagavad-gita, Sanskrit, dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Or the English translation. You have got that abridged edition?

Tamala Krsna: No, we don't have a copy of it here.

Prabhupada: How is that you don't have copy? Find out...

Yadubara: To show that on the film? At the end?

Prabhupada: It is best to impress them: "You read this book; you get all information."

Yadubara: It's a little bit difficult to change the film.

Prabhupada: No. That I am suggesting. If it is difficult, that is another thing. But this should be.

Yadubara: It should be there.

Prabhupada: And actually, there is evidence.

Yadubara: What about reincarnation, Srila Prabhupada? What about transmigration of the soul? 'Cause we were thinking to do that for a next film, because it seems like a very natural thing.

Prabhupada: Transmigration, how it can be shown? The mind, intelligence, and ego you cannot see. But you will have to accept there is mind.

Yadubara: We have not really worked out any details.

Prabhupada: Details, you cannot show it. It is so fine. Just like here is the sky, but you cannot see it. The mind is finer than the sky. The air is sky. (claps) That is sky. Where is the proof? (claps) That you cannot see. Sabda, sound. Sound is the sign of presence of sky. But you cannot see it. But it is there. (claps) This is the proof.

Tamala Krsna: It can be suggested only.

Prabhupada: That's all. Therefore sruti, which is beyond the sense perception, you have to hear it from authorities. That is knowledge. Who has seen it? These rascals... Who has seen it? So grossly educated they are. "Everything can be seen." Why everything? The same example we give. You have not seen your father. You have to hear, "Here is your father." That's all. That is the proof.

Yadubara: Just like in this last film, we suggested that there is a soul in the hand sequence -- when the hands were always changing, and the body grows old. So the idea was that there is something that's not changing there. So in film there are certain techniques we can use to suggest, as Tamala Krsna Goswami said, certain ideas.

Prabhupada: Idea, that idea is given there. Just like you cannot see the flavor, but still, you are smelling, some flavor is nice. In the air, it is rose flavor, it is passing. You cannot see what is that flavor and how it is being carried, but you can smell. Similarly, the soul is being carried by the mind, ego and intelligence. You cannot see it, but you have to understand by hearing from the authorities like Krsna. Itas tu viddhi me prakrtim param, jiva-bhutam maha-baho [Bg. 7.5]. Beyond this material things, there is another prakrti. That is the... That does not die. Na jayate na mriyate. And that is being carried by mind, intelligence and ego. By our gross eyes, we see the body is burnt into ashes, finished. Soul and everything is finished. The atheist will say like that. Bhasmi bhutasya dehasya tatah punar agamano bhavet.(?) "If the body is already burnt into ashes, who is coming and who are going?" The atheists. Krsna does not say. No. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. So will you accept the atheists or Krsna?
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay

© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International. Used with permission.

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